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Talk:Koi wa Accha Accha / Yumemita Fifteen

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15 vs Fifteen415:24, 5 March 2019

15 vs Fifteen

I would've thought that it would stay "15" seeing as how that is how the song is written, but it's just pronounced "fifteen".

Supermel0n (talk)00:51, 5 March 2019

It's written "15nen" but the alternate reading is "fifteen" and that takes precedence. You can check the revision history of Yumemiru Fifteen and the lyrics I romanized, that's how it's sung.

Mierna (talk)02:20, 5 March 2019

Yes, that is how it's sung because that's how you say it, but that doesn't change the way it is written. I have seen "Yumemiru Fifteen" written as that but also as "Yumemiru 15" (Wikipedia) and even "Yumemiru 15sai". I can definitely see leaving out the "nen" part of the title, but still think the written out number displays the original title better, as the title is purposefully not written as "夢見た フィフティーン" but with the number 15.

For example, ONE OK ROCK's album 35xxxv is written that way, but pronounced "thirty-five". Nowhere does anyone write it out as thirty-five. You write it the way it was meant to be written and say it the way it was meant to be said. We also never write out numbers, so I'm just not sure why this is an exception. Maybe you can explain how it takes precedent? Usually the written way takes precedent and the spoken way is noted. You can see typically any Wikipedia page as an example, but I've noted some below.

  • Yume Miru 15 = Yume Miru 15 (夢見る 15歳 Yume Miru Fifutīn, "Dreaming 15-Year-Old")
  • 35xxxv = 35xxxv (read as thirty five or Sātīfaibu)
  • [+ +] = [+ +] (read as plus plus)

That's my spiel. Please explain so I have a better understanding of where you're coming from. Thanks! :)

Supermel0n (talk)03:08, 5 March 2019

"Yumemiru Fifteen" uses an Alternate Character Reading. The title still means "dreaming 15-year-old" and it's still written as "15sai" in Japanese, but it's pronounced as "fifteen" because that was the reading assigned to it so that we don't say juugosai. Custom readings can be assigned to Japanese terms "to clarify or highlight a particular nuance the author wishes to convey."

  • Give me Love (Give me 愛): the kanji ai is assigned the reading "love", so the title is read as "Give me Love" and not "Give me Ai".
  • Maji Bomber!! (本気(マジ)ボンバー): the kanji honki is assigned the reading maji, as both terms are synonyms for "serious". We may have to spell "Honki Bomber" when typing it in Japanese, but the intended title of the song is still "Maji Bomber".
  • Yamaguchi Momoe's Cosmos (秋桜): the native Japanese name of the cosmos flower is read as "akizakura", but the song was assigned the katakana of "cosmos".
  • In the Sailor Moon manga, attack names were written out in kanji, with furigana that spelled out the intended English words.

The examples you gave are numbers and symbols, and I know they are kept as is in page titles with the noted pronunciation in parentheses. What I'm explaining here concerns Japanese and how the writer intends for us to read and pronounce the Japanese terms. The assigned readings, even if they are non-standard to the Japanese word and even in another language, take precedence because that's how the writer intended for those words to be read.

So in the case of "Yumemita Fifteen": the kanji used was "15nen" (15年) because the meaning refers to Wada Ayaka's 15 years in Hello! Project. If the title had just the number 15, then we could keep it as "Yumemita 15". However, "15nen" is assigned the reading "fifteen" in katakana, because that's how the term is intended to be read instead of juugonen. If "15nen" kept standard pronunciation, then we could keep the page title as "15nen". But it was assigned a non-standard pronunciation by the writer and that needs to be respected. That's what I mean by furigana/assigned reading/alternate reading takes precedence when referring to the name.

Mierna (talk)04:26, 5 March 2019

The only difference here is that your examples don't contain numbers, but I see where you're coming from. I still maintain that "15" would be better kept as a number, leaving off "nen", but I won't change it.

Supermel0n (talk)15:24, 5 March 2019